Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Christopher F. Hansen's avatar

The Dutch book argument for thirding seems pretty obvious and straightforward to me. If on every waking you're asked to place a wager on the result of the coin toss, you maximize your winnings by betting heads:tails at a 1:2 ratio.

If you're asked to place your bet at the end of the experiment, then of course you should bet at a 1:1 ratio. In that case it obviously doesn't matter how many times you woke up.

What I don't really understand is why you seem to think the second one is the obvious interpretation of this word problem. As you correctly point out, it's not exactly clear what "credence" is supposed to mean here. But at least if you interpret it as betting odds, the thirder position is pretty clear.

Expand full comment
Jeff Jo's avatar

The controversy is really rather trivial. Does SB gain the information that makes it a conditional probability problem, or not? And the correct history helps to see how it came to this point.

It was originated by Arnold Zuboff. A very long-lived hypnotist puts SB to sleep, and wakes her either once each day over the next one trillion days, or on just one randomly selected day in that period, based on a coin flip (result unspecified). Every time she is wakened, she is asked for her credence/confidence that this is the only time she was/will be awakened. Note that this is the same as the probability that the coin indicated that she should be wakened only once.

Adam Elga created the popular version, but that wasn't the question he posed. SB is wakened once, or twice, based on a fair coin flip. Heads means once, but no days are mentioned. In order to solve this problem as a conditional probability problem, he labeled the wakenings with the days Monday and Tuesday. There are FOUR, not THREE, combinations of the day and coin.

But Elga found a way to ignore one. If we tell SB that it is Monday, then only two combinations remain: Mon&T, and Mon&H. If we tell her that the coin landed T, again only two combinations remain: Mon&T, and Tue&T. Since each pair must be equally-likely, and one appears in each pair, Elga concluded that these three combinations must be equally likely even before SB is told anything. Since they are the only possibilities if SB is awake, each must have a 1/3 probability when she is awake.

The problem with this is, that by ignoring Tue&H, it encourages some to think it is not a possibility in the experiment. That Tuesday is somehow removed from the calendar if the coin lands on Heads.

We can remove this problem by using four volunteers instead of one. Each will be assigned a different combination from the set {Mon&H, Mon&T, Tue&H, Tue&T}. Three will be wakened on each day, excluding the one who was assigned that day and the actual coin result. Each will be asked, a la Zuboff, for the probability that this is her only waking. Note this is the same problem as the popular one for the volunteer assigned Tue&H, and an equivalent one for each of the other volunteers.

But each knows that their answers should be the same, that the question is true for exactly one of them, and that their answers have to sum to 1. That answer is 1/3.

The correct solution to the popular problem, is that there are four equally-likely combinations that can apply to a randomly-selected day in the experiment. Since SB is awake, H&Tue is eliminated, and the remaining combinations each have a probability of 1/3.

Expand full comment
12 more comments...

No posts